Ep. 101: Racism In The Beauty Industry And Beyond With Ebony Kimbrough
It is July 2020. We have a global pandemic. We have civil unrest. We have corruption in the government coming out. People are afraid to communicate. People are too afraid of saying the wrong thing.
There are a lot of things that have happened in the last month. You've probably learned about a lot of things you were never aware of before. You probably (hopefully) feel the need to speak up and do better than you have in the past but you're scared to start. You don't know where to start.
It's hard having these kinds of conversations but it's important for us to do so anyway. For too long the voices of Black people have been silenced and shoved in a corner. For too long Black people haven't been listened to and cared for by non-Black society. It's time to change that.
To start off the conversation I invited my friend Ebony Kimbrough, PMU artist and microblading educator, to come on the show and talk to us about her experience as a Black business owner. Please give this episode a good listen.
Here are the episode highlights:
‣‣ [05:49] I want to talk first about the importance of acknowledging all the times when you could've done better and using that acknowledgment to drive yourself to do better now and speak up.
‣‣ [12:43] Ebony and I talk about the importance of having different experiences as people from different races and ethnicities and sharing those experiences with others.
‣‣ [18:06] We get into the history of the relationship between the police and Black people and how the institutions that held up slavery still exist today.
‣‣ [20:10] Here we talk about how different our experiences getting pulled over can be if we're Black vs non-Black.
‣‣ [22:23] Ebony shares a story of a Black man who called the cops on a white guy who was breaking into his pawnshop.
‣‣ [23:32] We also talk about Breonna Taylor, who was killed in her sleep in her home in March, and her killers still haven't been held accountable.
‣‣ [24:30] I share my different experience with police growing up as an immigrant from the Philippines.
‣‣ [28:12] We get into the topic of having difficult conversations with your children about race. How do you do it? When do you do it?
‣‣ [29:41] If you're a business owner - do you put your face on the front of your advertisements? Who are you centering? Here Ebony talks about why she can't put her own face on the advertising as the owner of her own school.
‣‣ [32:31] Admittedly, I'm crying a bit by this point. I can't help but ask Ebony how she remains so confident when so much of the world is fighting against her.
‣‣ [40:35] Here I unpack my own history with racism as a Filipina immigrant. We dig a bit into the model minority myth.
‣‣ [47:57] Ebony and I talk about the treatment of Colin Kaepernick and Ebony's thoughts as someone who comes from a military family.
‣‣ [50:03] Ebony draws comparisons between Kaepernick, Martin Luther King Jr., the Black Panther Party, and the KKK.
‣‣ [55:03] We discuss how traumatizing it is to be able to see yourself, your family, and your experiences so visibly in the footage of Black people being murdered by police on television or the internet.
I WANT TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT RACISM! (Listen Here)
I can't say enough how grateful I am to have been able to sit down with Ebony Kimbrough and talk about her experience as a Black business owner in the beauty industry. You can keep up with her and her permanent makeup school EK Professionals right here!
You can follow me, Sheila Bella, on Instagram @realsheilabella!
Here are the links that were mentioned in the podcast!
Grow Your Gram
Online Course Workshop
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You can enjoy a transcript of the podcast here.
Sheila Bella:
Hey friend, it's Sheila Bella. You and I have been here hanging out on Pretty Rich Podcast for a little while now and I think it's time that we move on to a texting relationship. Yup, I'm going to give you my phone number and please go ahead and text me. Text me anything you want. Text me a cool song you listened to, a quote that you loved or what you had for lunch this morning and you can even text me any business questions you might have.
My number is area code 310-388-4588 and the reason why I give you that number is because I am serious about building a relationship with you and building a community. The texts from this phone number, honest to God, comes to my phone so yeah, go ahead and use it. You know what? The thing that I love getting texts about the most are your biggest takeaways from this podcast. Go ahead and text me, area code 310-388-4588, and I'll text you back soon.
You're listening to the Pretty Rich Podcast, where you are totally the heroine of your own story. I'm your host, Sheila Bella and I built a seven figure PMU biz without a degree, without a fancy website or a sugar daddy. If you and I hang out here long enough, you're going to start to believe that you can do it too because you really can. I know you think I don't know you, but I do. I really, really do because I am you and I believe we're all on the same journey together.
My perfect job didn't exist, so I created it. The job I wanted wasn't hiring me, so I skipped the line and hired myself as CEO, just like you can. Consider me your secret beauty biz BFF, in case you need to be reminded that power is never given to you, you just have to take it. Are you ready beauty boss? Let's jump in.
Oh my gosh. What is going on with the world today? At the time of this recording, it is June 20th, 2020. We have a global pandemic. We have civil unrest. We have a ton of injustice in our world. There's a lot of well known couples that are splitting up left and right. I don't know if that's related, if that's a quarantine thing like it's bringing out marriage issues. A lot of corruption in our government is coming out, it's surfacing. People are afraid to speak out. People are saying the wrong thing left and right and it seems that there's a lot of true colors being revealed. People are afraid to communicate, and everyone's just scared. It's a challenging time.
I just gave you guys all the bad news right now, but it's because I know that this community that I've built and I'm so, so proud of, I know you guys are going through it. Me not addressing these issues is me being like not real and out of touch, so I figured the best thing I could do for my community and my friends is to have open conversations. I feel like the best thing that I could do for my friends in this industry is to amplify those people whose stories have been oppressed for so long.
To have open conversations about this stuff, it's awkward and uncomfortable, and I might say the wrong thing. I might post the wrong thing, but I really don't want to give into this fear too much. I don't want to give into this fear too much of saying the wrong thing and therefore, I'm not going to participate in this conversation. Sorry, my mother-in-law's calling. I told her I'd call her later. You guys know what I mean? This is me being super transparent right now.
If you can't speak your mind in America, in America, if you have something to say but you're afraid to say it, let that sink in. What? We can't speak up right now? That's not okay and I refuse to believe that I live in this America. I am going to do my best to move through this time and lead with genuine curiosity because I want to learn. I just want to be open and honest here in this conversation with my friend, Ebony Kimbrough of EK Professionals. She is a permanent makeup artist who's been in the business for several years. She's in Arkansas and she's a Black female.
I fell in love with her actually in Cancun. We were speaking at a conference together and oh my God, you know how you just find your people? You go to a party and you just find your people and I was just like, "Oh, there's my..." I found her," and I just kept hanging out with her. It was just her and I most of the time and Hoy, Hoy Kwan. When this whole Black Lives Matter movement amped up just recently, I wanted to talk to somebody about it on here, on Pretty Rich Podcast.
I've been talking to people privately, through text messages and calling them and stuff like that, but I wanted to bring somebody on, on Pretty Rich Podcast who could speak on this topic. We did an Instagram live, so what you guys are hearing today is me repurposing an Instagram live that Ebony and I did, and I loved it. She got me to cry I think twice.
I just want to say that I have regrets. I have regrets for not waking up to all of this sooner. I used to say, "Oh hashtag no regrets, I have no regrets. You can't live with regrets, it's the past." One time I heard this quote from Renee Brown and she says, "No regrets doesn't mean living with courage, it means living without reflection. To live without regret is to believe that you have nothing to learn, no amends to make and no opportunity to be braver with your life." As I reflected on this, I'm sad to say that I realized that, "Oh man, I could have done more." I thought I already knew, but I was asleep to how deeply rooted racism is in this country, and it's not enough. I felt like it just wasn't enough for me to have Black friends. Like, "Oh I have Black friends."
I've had Black people on my podcast and now thinking about it, I'm like, "I really could have done more," because there are a lot of things that I didn't know. I look back and think, "Why didn't I speak out back then?" It's kind of embarrassing. Why am I only speaking out about this now? I really should have, so yes, I have regret.
My hope is that now that I'm more aware of what's going on, is to keep moving forward because I don't believe that this is just a trend or I don't want it to be just a trend. I want this to be an ongoing revolution, an ongoing campaign. We should never ever stop our efforts to educate, communicate, and fight for justice. I hope that's not a trend. Fighting for justice isn't just trendy.
I just want to say that this is a complicated thing and I don't think it's... For me, I'm not into politics, I don't know enough about politics, so I'm not going to speak about politics because I don't know. I don't know, but I can speak about what it's like to be a human being. I can speak from that angle for sure. Caring for my brothers and sisters, and acknowledging what they might be going through as individuals and as brothers and sisters in the Lord, honestly.
I just want to encourage you guys that, if you have a platform of any size, I urge you to think about what you're using it for. This is a moral issue, I really think so, because I feel like people are so scared that we won't stand up for what's right, that's scary. I have friends and I have clients who have millions of followers, and sometimes I'm a little disappointed at how meaningless their posts are. I'm not saying that all my posts are super meaningful and super wonderful and great, but this is something that I've been wrestling with lately. I have a voice, I want to use it for good and I want to be brave. I don't want to act in fear.
As I share my heart with you, my truth with you, I understand that anything I might say might rub somebody the wrong way, but I know I'm trying my best. I'm not above apologizing if I feel like I need to. My purpose is to awaken females to the greatness that's within them. If you have a gift, if you have a message that's worth being seen and heard, I believe that you should say it. If you mess up, that's okay because you can go back and apologize.
I think what's missing right now is humility and open conversations, that's going to be a part of the solution to all this ultimately is communication. With that, as imperfect as this attempt is, I'm trying to do my part by starting, starting the process. I want to continue to do this because this is so much bigger than Black Lives Matter.
Yes, it's about Black Lives Matter. Black lives are in danger, but if one group of people can experience injustice for hundreds of years, it means it can happen to any of us if we don't take a stand, no matter what color you are. This is about the human experience. This is about standing up for humanity and moving through this uncharted territory with grace. Grace with yourself, grace for other people, and just really acknowledging their personal experiences and truths and being open to what they tell you. "What's it like for you? Oh, it's like that for you? Oh well, this is what it's like for me."
I don't think people are changed by government laws. I think they help, but if we're talking about a soul transformation, I think those happen through relationships, deep personal relationships and meaningful conversations more than anything the government says. That I know for sure and that is why I am starting here. Ladies and gentlemen, here's Ebony Kimbrough.
So excited to have you here. Okay, so I just want to open up to the audience by telling them that, I think it was this morning. I texted you and I was like, "Gosh Ebony, I feel like I'm bothering all my Black friends."
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes, I think everybody feels like that right now.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, and so I was like, "I just really appreciate that you're taking an hour or a little less than an hour or whatever out of your time to educate us or share your experiences." I'm assuming that for a lot of Black people and I'm hearing a lot of this from Black people is just, "I am just tired of educating people. It's not my job to educate people, they need to educate themselves. I'm tired of telling the same story." For a lot of Black people that I talk to, they're like, "I've been doing this for years," and they're just like over it.
Ebony Kimbrough:
I'm not over it though.
Sheila Bella:
Okay. Yeah, and everybody's different.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah, I'm not over it. I have been blessed to experience amazing people who don't look like me. That's what allows me to not be over it because there are some people who've only experienced racism, period. They've only experienced being called a nigger, they've only experienced white privilege not working for them. They've only experienced that side. I've been blessed to experience both sides. Well, the other side it's not a blessing, but I'm able to see the beauty of the other side. I've had white friends. I've had Asians. I've had Hispanic friends who have stood up for me in times when even people of my own race would not, so there's admit it. I don't know [inaudible 00:13:48].
Sheila Bella:
Admit? Admit?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes, sorry. I know that when people genuinely say like, you do have some people who are just kind of like full of shit and ride the wave and the trends, "Let's hop on it because everyone's talk..." You can't hear me?
Sheila Bella:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Now I can, it's all right.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Can you hear me now?
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, I can hear you now, sorry.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Okay, so a lot of people are riding the wave as well, but we can't be over it because the dialogue has to be there. If the dialogue is not there, then how do we have the conversations? A lot of people are afraid to even speak or say anything on the internet right now.
Sheila Bella:
I was telling you that, yeah.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah.
Sheila Bella:
Thank you for addressing that. If you guys have those fears, because Ebony and I were chatting about this. A question that I'm getting a lot is like, "I'm scared to speak, I don't know what to say. What do we say? I'm afraid to mess up." If you guys are feeling that, let us know in the comments. Yeah, we don't feel so alone and I'll be honest with you, in the beginning, beginning, I mean, this is going on for 400 years.
Ebony Kimbrough:
In the beginning.
Sheila Bella:
In the beginning, like I said this is new.
Ebony Kimbrough:
There was light.
Sheila Bella:
I think it was like, I don't know. Well, because I'm in LA and there's a ton of riots here or there were a ton of riots here in the beginning of last week and stuff like that. Then, so I had to take it. I had to sit back and just observe and learn, not just speak ignorance into the world because we're all ignorant, some more than others.
Ebony Kimbrough:
More, definitely.
Sheila Bella:
The thing is like, we're all ignorant to something. To something because we're not experts at everything.
Ebony Kimbrough:
True.
Sheila Bella:
A question that I'm getting a lot right now is like, "What do I post on social media?" When you're ignorant about a topic, you have two options. You can either speak uninformed like some people did and I'm like, "Okay." Or you can just be quiet and be fearful of being accused to be a bad person. Or you can choose to learn and to yeah, attend this live, to have conversations, to read up and skill up and inform yourself.
Sheila Bella:
What I was hoping for this conversation is to be able to have a conversation between you and I publicly about your experiences as well as my experiences. You don't know what it's like to be a Filipino immigrant with [inaudible 00:16:35].
Ebony Kimbrough:
I know.
Sheila Bella:
I don't know what it's like to be a Black girl in Arkansas, right?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Right.
Sheila Bella:
With the beauty business, I don't know and I think we can learn from each other's experiences and stories. All I know is you and I have a lot of fun together.
Ebony Kimbrough:
That's it, we turn up everywhere we go, and we see each other's colors. We know each other's colors. We call ourselves the color crew.
Sheila Bella:
Color crew.
Ebony Kimbrough:
The color crew.
Sheila Bella:
That's a show.
Ebony Kimbrough:
The thing is that, you have a lot of white Americans who, again, they have white privilege. When we say white privilege, a lot of them are offended. Will, hi?
Sheila Bella:
He loves you, he's a funny artist [crosstalk 00:17:27].
Ebony Kimbrough:
A lot of them are offended because they think when we say white privilege, that we're saying they're racist and we're not saying they're racist. Whether you use your white privilege or not, you have it, period, just because you were born white. Because you have that privilege, you've never experienced when I ride past the police my neck literally doesn't turn. I'm straight, I barely breathe until I'm maybe a mile away and I don't see any lights flashing.
Sheila Bella:
When did that start?
Ebony Kimbrough:
It's always been bad.
Sheila Bella:
You cannot remember ever like-
Ebony Kimbrough:
Ever.
Sheila Bella:
... interacting with the police not afraid?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Well, not now. I'll take that back as far as not afraid, because there are some wonderful cops. I have cops in my family.
Sheila Bella:
Ooh, we'll talk to that [crosstalk 00:18:25].
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah, I have police officers in my family. The thing is that, at a young age we're taught because from our culture what we know is that, when we were enslaved, when we were brought over from Africa and we were enslaved and it was the slave times, plantations picking cotton, I don't know if you all are aware about the paddle... Whenever a slave ran away, they had the paddy rollers, the people who caught the slaves. Those were the police.
Sheila Bella:
Roots.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Those were the police.
Sheila Bella:
You see roots.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes, so all it did was transition from that to police behind badges.
Sheila Bella:
Oh my gosh.
Ebony Kimbrough:
From the beginning of time, there's always been a barrier of fear and no trust for the police. We were brought from Africa here for economic purposes, to pick the cotton and for the textile up in the North. That's just a fact, that's what we were brought here for. You running off from master's plantation, it makes him lose money. All it has transitioned to now is that, we have now the prison has become modern day slavery. 98% of the people, it's 97.6% of the people who get charged with drug crimes that are African American are going to get the highest amount of time.
It's been since the beginning of time that it has happened, and it's difficult for white people to understand it because they've never been put in the position. When I say, "Sheila, I got stopped by the police, they right in my car." "Are you sure you didn't have any drugs on you?"
Sheila Bella:
"You leave that shit at home Ebony."
Ebony Kimbrough:
"Did you have guns? Did you comply?" When your skin is weaponized, when the skin tone is a weapon, you can comply all day long, you still committed a crime because you're Black.
I had one of my white friends in the car with me one time and I told this story last week, and we got stopped by the police. She's just like, "Police pulled over." I think she was speeding or he says she was speeding or whatever. She said she wasn't, and she's like, he come to the windows, she doing all this and moving fast. I'm like, "Whoa, oh no, hold up."
Sheila Bella:
Oh my God.
Ebony Kimbrough:
[crosstalk 00:21:30], you haven't done anything. You don't have to fucking be scared of him. He was like, he asked me, "Ma'am, can I see your ID?" I say, "Yes, sir. Can I reach in my pocket and get it?" She's like, "We don't have to fucking give him this and that." I'm like, "You've got to calm down, because you're going to go home, I'm not."
Sheila Bella:
When was this? Recently?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Like three years ago, and it's just the way that it has been. Until you understand that, you're always going to think that what we're saying is exaggerated. You will think that, "Oh all lives matter," but it's not. Yeah, all lives matter except the Black ones and the Hispanics or anyone that is not, and it's just the fact, anyone that is not white is questionable.
If you and a white woman were to get into an altercation and she could have started it or whatever, you are going to be the one who is going to receive the harsher sentence. We just had a pawn shop owner yesterday, someone broke in his pawn shop. It's a Black man that owns the pawn shop. Okay?
Sheila Bella:
Okay.
Ebony Kimbrough:
[crosstalk 00:22:59] go call the police, it was a white guy that broke in the pawn shop. The police came in, immediately punched the Black guy in his face. I'm going to have to say in the story, the guy ended up, who broke in the pawn shop, ended up getting away because you sitting here detaining the owner thinking that he the one who done broke in the shop.
Sheila Bella:
Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
Ebony Kimbrough:
The Breonna Taylor name that you continue to see, she was in her house asleep.
Sheila Bella:
I know and her boyfriend was there, right?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Her boyfriend was there. They kicked the door in thinking they were doing a no-knock raid, shot in the house, shot her eight times. The boyfriend returned fire, he got arrested only to find out that the person they was looking for was already in custody and they were at the wrong house. You don't hear stories like this about white people.
Ebony Kimbrough:
We will never say that there aren't white people that have not been harmed by the police, killed by the police because we know that's not a fact. It's done more often to Black people.
Sheila Bella:
Definitely.
Ebony Kimbrough:
If it's not done to Black people, it's definitely done to people of color.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, definitely. I want to comment a little bit on, well there's two things I want to comment on. The first one is, the culture you were brought up in because the way you said it, you explained it to me was that basically the paddlers, am I saying it correctly?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah.
Sheila Bella:
Okay, so basically it's like the same thing as the police now, and you've known that from childhood. It's very different because I was born in this world. I was born in the Philippines and the way America was sold to me is that it was this utopia. I was born in the Philippines and we busted our butts coming here. We broke the law coming here, my parents and that's how this country was sold to me. That this place was worth going through danger for, because this country is perfect. I was told from the beginning as a child that, "America is great. If you respect it, if you respect it, you can have anything you've ever wanted in life." That's what I was told.
Now as an adult I'm realizing that, "Oh wait a second. Okay, there's flaws here." The way I grew up and the way you grew up, the message that was impounded in my brain as a child is very different. I was told as a child that police are like superheroes. When you see a policeman, you trust them immensely. When I see police the reaction in my body is different. The thing...
Ebony Kimbrough:
Who's Jenny Lee?
Sheila Bella:
"No one forced you to come. Did they accept your law?" Jenny Lee, we are only going to reply to positive comments or constructive comments. We don't mind challenges.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Jenny Lee, she's tripping.
Sheila Bella:
Well Jenny Lee, you should keep watching though, I love that you're watching. Okay, so I believe that both are true. Both are true, America is great and it's also majorly effed up the way it is now. Both are true and I feel like when you share your experiences and I share mine, I've learned a lot recently about why people may be so angry, so angry that they would want to burn their own town. I get it now and especially…
I did an Instagram live on you, oh my gosh, I didn't even tag you last week. I did an Instagram live on you and your story of what you go through and what you tell your children, how you raise your children. The story that stuck to me, actually, I'll let you tell it, but the story that stuck to me is, what you're going to tell your kids if ever they come in front of a police officer. They're having an encounter with a police officer, and if they get beaten they don't fight back.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Don't fight back, because you'll be killed immediately. You have to just take the beating.
Sheila Bella:
It's better to be judged by 12 than be carried by six. I don't know Ebony, I know a lot of Black people, but I don't know the way you communicate just really speaks to me. That's why I really, really wanted you on my podcast. What are you telling your kids right now? What do you suggest? I tell my biracial children that are white and Filipino...
Ebony Kimbrough:
The first thing you have to do and where we fail a lot as parents, is we create the fairytale for them. Like you said you thought the USA was this beautiful, amazing place. When you get here, you kind of see the difference. We sell them the fairy tale of, "If you do this, this won't happen to you," and it's just not true. We don't tell them that sometimes just because you look a certain way, you'll be discriminated against.
They go through life thinking that, "Oh, if I work hard enough I can have this." Or, "Oh, if I do this hard enough I can have this," in which in most aspects you can. I can outwork you, but just because I'm Black, you'll have the... I don't know if you remember the very first time we met.
Sheila Bella:
Yes, I have that in my notes.
Ebony Kimbrough:
The first time that we met was when I called you for advertisement and marketing. You were like, "Girl, why don't you just put your... I think you need to put your face on here..." I'm like, "No, I can't do that. I can't do it." You're like, "No, you're way too awesome, you really can. Just try it." I'm like, "No, Sheila you tripping, I can't do it."
Most people think that my school is owned by someone white and I get hell of business from it. When I came out first and I was doing my lives and I'm doing the exact same services that I was doing, it was a pushback. When I rebranded and I have white girls on my flyers, the majority of my students are white, business started booming. It started booming and so people are like, "Ebony, you're so amazing. Ebony, you..." I'm like...
Sheila Bella:
It's not okay, Ebony. It's not okay.
Ebony Kimbrough:
I can't. I sell myself as the instructor. You will never see on anything that says I'm the owner because I know what happens from it. We don't prepare our children for this disappointment in life, so when it happens to them, it's shifts changing for them if we don't prepare them for it. Either they become extreme or they retreat, there's no middle ground when they experience it. As parents, we have to prepare them for what is inevitable. Your children...
Sheila Bella:
At what age do you start? Ebony, at what age do you start?
Ebony Kimbrough:
I literally started it probably five years old.
Sheila Bella:
Okay, this is my question. Okay, first of all I think that's so heartbreaking, that's really heartbreaking because like my husband makes fun of me. I put my face on everything. I put my face on like, he says like underneath the cereal bowl. I'm just like I know, but to think that you have to hide yourself and pretend to be somebody else. Sorry, it's not good for the interviewer to cry.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It's okay. It's okay.
Sheila Bella:
To think that you have to hide yourself, like in...
Ebony Kimbrough:
I understand it's society.
Sheila Bella:
I know you've been living with this for a long time and then so maybe you're like, "Sheila, getting emotional." Maybe it's one of the times I've really come to the reality that you can't do that because you've told me this story before. You've told me this story before, and I'm sorry if that didn't hit me as hard as it's hitting me now. I'm like, "Wow, that really sucks." Then right now, I don't know why. How are you so amazing? How are you so confident regardless?
Ebony Kimbrough:
God.
Sheila Bella:
How are you such a queen regardless?
Ebony Kimbrough:
God.
Sheila Bella:
Just God, right?
Ebony Kimbrough:
I literally counted, every struggle, I count it all joy because in the end I know whose I am. It doesn't matter who I am to you, I know whose I am.
Sheila Bella:
Amen.
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I'm Sheila Bella and I want to help turn your beauty business into just that, a real business. I want to teach you the systems and strategies I used to build my seven figure brand in as little as three years. Check it out, go to sheilabella.com/prettyrichuniversity, or send me a DM on Instagram at realsheilabella and I look forward to working with you. Let's do this.
Ebony Kimbrough:
When I was younger, things would bother me. I'm dark, so as you've learned when you're darker, you experience it more. My grandmother told me at a very young age that, because my granddad is a Black Panther and so I was raised on loving my Blackness. I was raised on walking in my greatness. I was raised on knowing that Black people came from kings and queens, not slavery.
Sheila Bella:
Okay, that's a huge part of it then.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It's a huge part of it.
Sheila Bella:
Huge.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Then as I have grown, I understand and I know that racism is idiocrasy. I think anyone who can be racist is unlearned, uneducated and extremely ignorant.
Sheila Bella:
Super stupid.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes.
Sheila Bella:
Just irrational too.
Ebony Kimbrough:
If I don't like you, it's going to be a reason. It definitely is not going to be because of the color of your skin. I have had so many experiences Sheila, to where I had to get to the point to where I can't allow this to shift me. I can't allow it to. I've been called a nigger bitch in my own school.
Sheila Bella:
Wait, that school that you own?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes.
Sheila Bella:
What's that about? What happened there?
Ebony Kimbrough:
It was another school owner who, once I opened all of her students transferred to my school.
Sheila Bella:
Well that's good.
Ebony Kimbrough:
She came into my school and she asked for the owner. She went and she walked in I was like, "Hey, how you doing? How can I help you?" She was like, "Is the owner here?" I'm like, "How can I help you?" She said, "I asked for the owner not the receptionist." I said, "Again, how can I help you?" "I asked for the owner," and I'm like, "Ma'am, I'm the owner. How can I help you?" Literally face, it contorted.
Sheila Bella:
Do you keep your cool during those times or do you go...
Ebony Kimbrough:
I did. I wanted to whoop her ass low key, but I knew that if I would've whooped her ass, that it would have been flipped on me. That whatever she would have done, it would have been blamed on me, and everything that I've worked for would have been out the window. My student was like, "Who the fuck is she talking to?" This is a white girl and I'm just like, "It's cool. It's totally cool."
When she walked out, she's dialing on the phone guess calling whoever to tell that it's a Black woman that owns the school. She says, turned around and says, "I can't believe they let a nigger bitch in the game." I'm just like, "Well, they did and I have all your students." She left out, but if I continue to allow what I experience and not allow it to be teachable moments for me and for my children, because sometimes it happens when they're with me, then I would continually to be... Like I seen someone say, the Jenny Lee chick, she said, "Stop playing the victim."
Sheila Bella:
I was just thinking about her. I'm like, "That's your answer Jenny Lee."
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah, she says, "Stop playing the victim." I refuse to play victim, I'm the victor. At the end of the day, as long as no one puts their hands on me, I'm totally fine. If somebody puts their hands on me, I'm going to beat the brakes off of them and you all probably read about it in California.
Sheila Bella:
That's my friend. That's my friend.
Ebony Kimbrough:
As long as they don't put their hands on me. I lose my calm a little when my children are involved, but I have also learned how to not respond so boldly when my children are with me so that when they're not, they don't think that, that's how they should respond.
Sheila Bella:
I see. They'll have that memory, and kids really change you.
Ebony Kimbrough:
They do.
Sheila Bella:
They do.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Everybody went ahead and had a brace beat off of me if it wasn't for my kids, they do.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, kids really change you. You start thinking longterm and shit and it's not as fun.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah, you definitely think before you act.
Sheila Bella:
Oh, another thing I wanted to comment on was I learned something last week. See, I'm really diving into this. I learned something last week and you were talking about how Black people were enslaved for profit from the plantation owners. I was trying to figure out where my heritage came into this mix and my thinking, the way I was raised fit into this narrative.
Then I learned that back in the day, I guess they also had Chinese slaves. They had Black slaves and then at some point they mixed in like Chinese slaves. Chinese slaves were described as hardworking, focused, docile, mild mannered. That is when the idea or the concept of the model minority was born and it was repeated, this idea of the model minority was repeated to Black people. To the Black slaves as a way to make them compete and work harder for approval of white plantation owners.
I can look back as early as my... I'll never forget, it was like the fifth or sixth grade. "I was in this movie, super open and honest," thank you for making me feel safe in doing so. I was at Saticoy Elementary, I was in the gifted program and everybody in the gifted, the gifted program, it's basically like honors' program or something like that, all were Koreans.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Asians.
Sheila Bella:
Thai, Asian and then there was this one white guy I had a major crush on. Anyway, he's not doing well anymore.
Ebony Kimbrough:
They never are in high school.
Sheila Bella:
They never are, so I was like the fourth grade or something like that. Then I remember hearing the concept of the model minority for the first time. My friends kids, like how old are fourth graders? What is that like?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Eight, nine.
Sheila Bella:
I don't even know.
Ebony Kimbrough:
I don't even know either.
Sheila Bella:
As a child who just longs for belonging and to be part of something so badly, I said, "Yes, I am." I wanted to say the word we and have me be included in the we so badly at like 10 years old or whatever that was. My friends were like, "Yeah, Asians are the model minority," without really knowing about the history behind that.
Sheila Bella:
I have to say, for the majority of my life that has kind of shaped the way I behaved and in a way that I'm now like more aware of. There was an unwarranted arrogance perhaps in there that it was made up. Also, I felt like, "Okay, this is the expectation of me. I'm Asian, I'm agreeable. I stay in my lane." Then it crept in some other things in my 20s. Like I'm sexually like you know, I'm fertile, I'm flexible supposedly, all of those things. It was just because of this narrative that was implanted in me as a child.
Sheila Bella:
There was actually a ploy, there was actually a psychological ploy for profit just to compete against Black people. I was like, "Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh."
Ebony Kimbrough:
It's crazy that they have the ploy, but we weren't even considered humans. We were considered cattle.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It's crazy that they have that to create the ploy, but you create the ploy for someone that you consider human and another one that you consider like a cow. When you start digging deep into this stuff, man, so much stuff reveals itself.
Sheila Bella:
It doesn't make any sense.
Ebony Kimbrough:
No, it doesn't make sense.
Sheila Bella:
It doesn't make any sense because when the term like model minority was born, it was because Chinese people at that time had two parents and both parents in the home. We were technically competing against 350 years of slavery, of Black people being enslaved, that's not fair.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You're competing against people being enslaved.
Sheila Bella:
For hundreds of years, and I never knew that and I'm so glad I know that now.
Ebony Kimbrough:
That's why I said like people get upset when you say things like, "Oh, well I've never seen a slave, I didn't own any slaves." You're reaping the benefits from it all. You're reaping the benefits from it all. Imagine every single time, I don't know if you know about Black Wall Street, it was in Tulsa. It was a thriving Black town. They were the bomb, like how Housewives of Beverly Hills he is right now, that's where Black Wall Street was. Because it was a thriving community that came through and bombed it, burned it to the ground.
When you hear Black people saying they don't care about burning this to the ground because like, even though I own the house that I'm in, I don't own it. At any given time, if somebody wants to come and take it like they took America, they can and they will. When people don't understand... I had one of my white friends ask, "Well Ebony, he's been charged so why is everyone still angry?" That's one person and he's only been charged now that... The only reason that I think he'll be convicted this time is because so much has happened behind it.
Sheila Bella:
Other times you don't think so?
Ebony Kimbrough:
No, they've never been. They've never been or if they are they get like 20 years and 19 of it is suspended. The six months of it you're doing probation, so they never go to jail.
When you come to a point to where you have Colin Kaepernick, I've seen a lot of my friends post about him. A lot of white people are mad about Colin Kaepernick. Here's the deal with it. I have a husband who served three tours. I have an uncle who's a Lieutenant Colonel. I have nothing but military family, none of them felt offended by him kneeling during the National Anthem. No, what is it? (singing) the words don't apply to us.
Land of the free, we've never seen it, we're free-ish. We can walk around free, but we're still shackled, our minds are shackled. You're upset because Colin Kaepernick peacefully kneels on a knee, he never got up and said, "Fuck America, fuck the Star-Spangled Banner." No, he never did any of that. He said that he was kneeling because he couldn't stand for a National Anthem that will send soldiers over to fight for the country. When they come home, they look like dogs and treated like dogs.
He said that he was kneeling for all of the racial injustice that has happened. He never said any and all, I mean, every white person I could see on my timeline when it happened, they burned their Nike's. They had fire pit parties burning stuff, but he did it peacefully. He-
Sheila Bella:
Even my husband and I supported him.
Ebony Kimbrough:
... was blackballed and he's an amazing quarterback was blackballed. He did it peacefully. Now, people don't give a damn about being peaceful, because what we do know is no war has ever been won in love, ever. Martin Luther King would be turning over in his grave. You killed him, and he would sit there and let you throw rocks at his head.
Sheila Bella:
I see.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Just do like this and keep going. When we marched in Samoa, when we marched in Alabama, you turned the water holes and set the dogs on us, so what can we do? What can we do? If you ask any white person about the Black Panther Party, they think that it's a party that was out to kill the police, not so. The Black Panther Party was created so that we can police the police in our neighborhoods.
The Black Panther Party gave food to the needy, walked women and children to school because they weren't safe, so I'm the police. It was a problem that a man, a Black man knew his rights and carried a gun. You can look and see how... Just think about it. The Black Panther Party was on the FBI list, never the KKK, never.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, that is messed up.
Ebony Kimbrough:
[crosstalk 00:51:56] Hoover was one of the dirtiest people, he was one of the most racist people that you would ever experience. He had the Black Panther Party, Martin Luther King on the FBI list, but not the KKK. When I see you as white America say, "Oh, well, I'm upset because they are tearing down this."
What we also have found out because they'll do anything to make Black people, us look like savages or the animals that they have always said that we are. There has been so many white people being seen tagging Black Lives Matter on Starbucks and so many police officers seeming agitators.
Sheila Bella:
I've seen those. There is a difference though between like protestors and also opportunists.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes, riders. Riders and looters, there definitely is a difference. Here, all the protests have been peaceful.
Sheila Bella:
Oh, that's wonderful.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Then-
Sheila Bella:
Why?
Ebony Kimbrough:
... when the protests are over, the agitators and the looters come in, so it looks like the protests were not peaceful. I've attended every one and then it's something I'm going to have to share with you, I'm going to send it to your inbox. I said, "Man, to be white in America, it has to be a beautiful thing at this point." It's a white woman, she's riding. Well, she's not riding, she's looting, she's stealing out of Louis Vuitton store. They caught her on camera.
Sheila Bella:
I've seen that, maybe not that video. I've seen tons of videos of that.
Ebony Kimbrough:
The reporter said, "Hopefully she's an employee that's working there." This is the reporter.
Sheila Bella:
What?
Ebony Kimbrough:
She's like, "Hopefully she's an employee. I don't want to think that she's looting."
Sheila Bella:
What? Who is that reporter, of what city?
Ebony Kimbrough:
I said, "What the hell?"
Sheila Bella:
What?
Ebony Kimbrough:
I can't wait to share it to you.
Sheila Bella:
Oh my God, please send that to me.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Candy, you found the video?
Sheila Bella:
Hopefully she's an employee? Oh my goodness, hi Brandon. Oh my gosh. Yeah, can somebody please tag me in that video?
Ebony Kimbrough:
She just got a handful of the shit walking out the store like, she doesn't hit him up. She said, "I hope she's an employer."
Sheila Bella:
That is crazy. That's crazy.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Then think about it. You've had mass murderers, serial killers, like the guy who went in and killed the eight people in Charlotte while they were at church. They stopped him at Burger King to get something to eat, apprehended him with no problem. He just murdered eight people. This man, supposedly or whatever, had a fake $20 bill, did nothing to hurt anyone and you put your foot on his neck until he died.
Sheila Bella:
I can't, I really...
Ebony Kimbrough:
Until he died.
Sheila Bella:
The thing is, what gets me and what really made me understand the rage was, the thing is I think whenever we see acts of violence, it's easy to be removed and think like, "That's somebody else, that's somebody else." When that person looks like you and looks like your kids and there's no justice, you burn the town you live in. No problem. I mean, who don't understand like the looting? I understand it now. Who don't understand the looting and the rioting, imagine like the face of your child going through this, calling your name especially if you're a mother. There's no justice and it happens over and over and over again. I kind of explained it to my friend this way, like Romeo and Juliet. Oh yeah, I got a, "Hey Sheila, your lashes are about to hang off."
Ebony Kimbrough:
On that side, yeah, it is.
Sheila Bella:
Thank you. That's a good friend. Okay, so imagine it like Romeo and Juliet, so Romeo and Juliet, when Romeo dies because that's your child and it's like the example of the strongest love possible. When Romeo dies, Juliet's like, "Fuck this, I'm out and you're all going down with me. I don't care how much it hurts, I'm going to kill myself." To get to that point, and there's differences, there's people who are opportunists, but there are people who probably feel like the way I'm describing right now where I just don't give a fuck anymore.
Ebony Kimbrough:
That's what it is.
Sheila Bella:
I'm just going to burn the town, I will die inside this burning store. This is suicide pretty much because people are like, "Why are they burning down their own town, their own grocery store, their own pharmacy?" Unless you've felt love to that kind of degree, that type of passion which is like the way I feel for the love for my children, which I assume like you feel the way for the love for your children, then you won't understand why.
Sheila Bella:
"Why is this such an inconvenience? You're inconveniencing yourself?" You don't give a shit about convenience at that point, you're enraged and you want to die. That's the passion that I feel when I see that. We are going to get cut off by Instagram live because we had an hour, so we have about five minutes.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Okay.
Sheila Bella:
My heart just really hurts. It hurts for my Black brothers and sisters that are going through this. I relate especially to the mothers of Black children. Janet, who's watching this live right now, thank you. I love you. She's a mom with biracial children who are half Black, and it also hurts I have to say for the business owners who may be supporters. There are Black businesses also being burned and who don't have insurance.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Absolutely.
Sheila Bella:
People are like, "Oh, they have insurance," not all insurances cover this.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Absolutely.
Sheila Bella:
My heart hurts for that too and I don't like saying but, I like saying and. I also understand that with any revolution to begin...
Ebony Kimbrough:
There's a casualty.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, there is.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Always is, it always is and that's what sucks because 90% of them, 99 I'm sure they don't own the building. I literally suffer from PTSD when it comes to racism, I literally do. I still haven't watched the George Floyd video, I won't watch it.
Sheila Bella:
I heard you say that.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It will haunt me.
Sheila Bella:
I read the transcript and I couldn't even do it.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It would haunt me because as soon as I walk out of my room and open the door, who going to be standing right in my face is my 16-year-old son. Who one time, we live in an all white neighborhood, got locked out of the house. It was nighttime when he knocked on the neighbor's door, they called the police. He's 16, but he's 6’2 so he looks like a grown man. They thought someone was trying to break in their house. He literally was trying to just use the phone to call someone and tell him that he was locked out of the house.
Police officer comes and tells us, "Hey, I know that your son he's only 16, but he looks like a grown man. Just please make sure that he stays safe." He said, "Because someone will shoot him." I said, "I know officer." The fact that I'm so calm when someone says, "Someone will shoot him," and I'm like, "I know." My child he felt the wrath of Satan of me that night and he'd done nothing wrong honestly, but because I know that your life could have been taken.
Sheila Bella:
Right, and I don't know that reality for my kids. My kids are half white. They look like they're white and a little bit Asian, and I don't know that.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yeah, and it's unfair for them because I had to go back and apologize to him the next day, because I knew that I went like ballistic.
Sheila Bella:
Good. I mean, I would too. I would too.
Ebony Kimbrough:
It was because your life could have been taken. Now in which it has happened since then, he just stood outside, he just stood outside.
Sheila Bella:
Oh my gosh. I just applaud you so much as a mother.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Thank you.
Sheila Bella:
Ebony for your-
Ebony Kimbrough:
[inaudible 01:01:43].
Sheila Bella:
... awareness. You detach when you have to and you just give it to them straight.
Ebony Kimbrough:
If I don't, they could lose their life. It's not a believe in Santa Claus idea. I have to give it to them raw, like raw, raw. I tell them all the time, "You already have two strikes. You're Black and you're a male, so those are the two strikes you were born with. The third one they'll create."
Sheila Bella:
Oh my gosh.
Ebony Kimbrough:
"The third one they'll create, so please..." My children are probably, they probably just are like, "Oh my God, my mom is always on me." There is a story on this little boy named Kendrick Johnson, I want you to look at it. I know you said we're about to go, but I want everyone on here to look up the story about Kendrick Johnson in Georgia. A little Black boy went to school, did not come home. Mom inquires about where he is, they find him rolled up in a gym mat. They say that he committed suicide.
All of his organs are gone, stuffed with newspaper, rolled up in a gym mat. Now this is not in the 19, this was just like a couple of years ago. He committed suicide so you're telling us he committed suicide. He went to all white school. He rolled himself up in a man after he committed suicide and then he took his own organs out.
I think about all of the Trayvon Martin and my kids, I hate that I'm feisty sometimes because my kids are the same way. Them being feisty will have them murdered, will have their head blown off of their bodies especially in Arkansas when you're staying in the ground state. All the white person has to do is say, "Oh, I felt threatened."
Sheila Bella:
It's different there and I want everybody watching right now to know that, even though we're one country, the experience is different in every state.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Every state.
Sheila Bella:
Every county. It was just a couple of blocks.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Arkansas is the headquarters of KKK, so it happens. Even though I want to be the, "Hey, let's talk about the Tuesday area and let's eat bubblegum." I can't, I have to prepare soldiers for the war that they will have when they leave my home.
Sheila Bella:
Thank you. Thank you for being so candid.
Ebony Kimbrough:
I have to prepare. I can't imagine, I'm not going peacefully if anything happened to my children-
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, of course.
Ebony Kimbrough:
... wrongfully.
Sheila Bella:
Of course.
Ebony Kimbrough:
I prevent every measure. I try to make them walk straight. My kids didn't have cell phones until they were 16, no Instagrams because kids do stupid stuff so I don't want you on there doing this and you're targeted as a gang member. Then if something happens, "Oh, he was a gang member." What kid didn't take a picture and do this? They don't have their own.
It sounds insane, but it has kept them safe this far. It's kept them safe this far, and to the white people there who think that... I love, I really truly love everyone. I don't want you to think that when you see Black people you got to be scared and like, "Oh, I'll leave them going on and they hate us now." No, if you went to shit, they probably do hate you. If you are a part of the fight, it's all love because what we're fighting for is the same thing.
Sheila Bella:
We are. We are.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Use your white privilege to help.
Sheila Bella:
Or your platform or whatever you have.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Use it to help.
Sheila Bella:
This is a humanity issue, because if it can happen to one group of people, it could happen to you and your kids.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes, yes. It could happen to you or your kids. Then it has been known for years, for decades, that if you are a white person that helps a Black person, you're basically considered worse than us. Nigger lover, that's what you were seen as, but don't fall for the stigmatism. Don't fall, like really do have to stand up because a fight for humanity really is going on out here and it's not absurd.
Sheila Bella:
We have three minutes on the clock.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Okay.
Sheila Bella:
Or is it two and a half, what can we do really quickly to stand up? What can we do? I'm trying to use my platform. I'm learning, I'm starting in the home, but what can we do? What the heck do we post on social media?
Ebony Kimbrough:
Educate yourself before you post something. When you want to learn how to crochet or when you want us to learn how to do eyebrows or whatever, you went and sought the education. You didn't expect someone to bring the education to you, so educate yourselves. You can't talk about the writing and I scroll your timeline, because this is what makes most Black people mad. That you talk about the writing and the looting, and we scroll your timeline, you never say anything about what happened about to George Floyd was wrong.
We immediately feel attacked because you're worried about your target sales and not about our lives. As far as what to say, I've had so many people to reach out to me. We're not asking you to be on the front line throwing up Black palaces, we're not asking you that because everybody isn't meant for the fight. We want you to, when you see it done, you stand up and you use your voice. You educate your friends around you about what white privilege is. You educate your children. That's the most important thing, because the reason we're here now is because racism had grandchildren. Teach your children. Yes, we want you to see color, but we want you to respect the color when you see it.
Sheila Bella:
Thank you, Ebony.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Don't be afraid to post on social media. Don't post anything. Like I seen somebody who was like, "Can I say colored?" I'm like, "What?"
Sheila Bella:
You know what, I think you can apologize.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You can.
Sheila Bella:
You can.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You can.
Sheila Bella:
You can be like, "Oh, okay. Now I know."
Ebony Kimbrough:
Yes.
Sheila Bella:
You won't learn unless you try.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You've got to try.
Sheila Bella:
You've got to do something.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You have to try. You can't be afraid. You can't be silent either now, because now what we are saying is white silence is Black execution. If you don't know and if you don't have any Black friends or any friends of color, you need to check your circle.
Sheila Bella:
Yeah, that's true.
Ebony Kimbrough:
You can't be cultured if you don't have, and we're not talking, "Hey, I've got one little Black friend," no.
Sheila Bella:
One little.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Engage, and even if you are, if you're married to someone Black, you still don't know what it feels like to be Black.
Sheila Bella:
Wow, that's a really good point.
Ebony Kimbrough:
Even if your children are biracial, you don't know what it is, your children do, you don't. Educate yourselves.
Sheila Bella:
That's it for today's episode of Pretty Rich Podcast. If there was anything in this episode that has impacted you in any small or big way, I want to know. You can reach me at realsheilabella on Instagram, and by the way, if we are not text buddies yet, that needs to change. You can text my name Sheila, S-H-E-I-L-A to 31996 and we'll be connected. I really love hanging with you guys on here and one last thing before we wrap it up, I got to include my kids, right? Hashtag mom first. Here are Beau and Grey to close things out.
Beau:
Hi, my name is Beau and I'm five years old.
Sheila Bella:
Can you tell everybody what our family motto is?
Beau:
I can do hard things.
Sheila Bella:
I can do hard things. Now fill in the blanks, hard is?
Beau:
Fun.
Sheila Bella:
Easy is?
Beau:
Boring.
Sheila Bella:
Good job, buddy. I love you so much.
Beau:
I love you, the best more infinity.
Sheila Bella:
Grey say share with your friends.
Grey:
Share with friends.
Sheila Bella:
Please review my mommy on iTunes.
Grey:
[inaudible 01:11:11] mommy iTunes.
Sheila Bella:
Thanks for listening.
Grey:
Thanks for listening.
